Opening Doors: Missy Mazzoli (CFA’02)

Bostonia: How was your experience at BU as a composition major in the College of Fine Arts School of Music?

Missy Mazzoli:  I like to look at the numbers and the statistics and the ratio in terms of representation in any program I’m in or in a leadership position in. At BU, for a couple of years I was the only female undergrad. Not the only woman in my year, the only woman out of four years. Then I think at the end of my sophomore year, one more transferred in, and there were two of us. And 2 out of 40 is not a great number.

Anytime you are that significantly in the minority, that’s not the best learning environment. There was Marjorie Merryman teaching in the department at the time. She was the only woman, and I actually never got to study with her. It’s great there’s one female faculty member, but one out of six or seven is not a great ratio.

I had an amazing time at BU, I had amazing professors, I learned a lot, and they really kicked my butt and drilled the fundamentals into me, and I draw on that knowledge every day. [But] when you are the only one in your situation, that is not ideal and usually not a supportive environment. Also, there were very few students of color. And at the time, we didn’t have the language to recognize people who are not binary. It was a very white, male department. That is still the overwhelming majority of people who make up composition departments.

Bostonia: How would you change that?

Missy Mazzoli: I would hire a lot more women. Everything I’m saying also applies to race and representation of nonbinary and trans individuals. But from my perspective as a woman, when you have women in positions of power, more women are attracted to apply. So at NYU, you have Julia Wolfe. I see a lot of women in that department. Up until recently, Jennifer Higdon was teaching at the Curtis Institute of Music, and that program, though it’s small, had a lot of women. My department at Mannes could be better, but there are a lot of women on faculty, so we get a lot of female applicants.

I would also find ways to recruit exceptional young women who are in their teens. Part of the reason we founded Luna Lab was to shine a spotlight on really young, female, and nonbinary and gender-nonconforming composers who are making decisions about where to apply. I could imagine some kind of recruiting situation where, if BU was interested in those students, we could encourage them to apply.

BU has women on the faculty. It becomes a sort of knotty situation when these programs don’t have significant numbers of women on faculty—then I cannot in good conscience recommend that program to my students. It takes time, building a department where young women feel like they’re heard and they’re welcome and they’re recognized.

Bostonia: As a high schooler, you also studied at the BU Tanglewood Institute’s Young Artists Composition Program.

Missy Mazzoli: I was the only woman in the program there too, and I had a really hard time because of that. It’s the same exact problem. I do believe it has opened up now, and I am working with them as an advisor to help it open up even more. [She is an advisor for a new BUTI program—the Composition Fundamentals Workshop—for composers earlier in their development.]

Bostonia: Is this an academia problem or a classical music problem?

Missy Mazzoli: It’s both. I see the problem more acutely in academia because the numbers are smaller. I never had a female professor at Yale or at the Royal Conservatory at The Hague. There were no women on faculty at all. And this was not that long ago! This was, like, 15 years ago. 

Up until recently, there were orchestras that would have entire seasons with no female composers on them. So, I’m reacting against the number zero. I’m not saying to these orchestras you need to have a 50-50 split—even though an accurate representation of our population would be 51 percent female—I’m just advocating for having someone on the season who is not white and male.

I think classical music has this genius problem, where genius trumps all. And that classical music is somehow above the fray and untouched by these earthly concerns about gender and race and racism. And we are not! This is music made by people. This is a job. And when you don’t represent people, you deny them jobs, work, artistic fulfillment; #MeToo has not really fully hit classical music or music academia yet.

Bostonia: Despite the numbers, you survived and thrived. How?

Missy Mazzoli: I really drank the Kool-Aid of ’90s riot grrrl feminism, and I’m so glad I did. My models early on were people like Kathleen Hanna of Bikini Kill and Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth, these punk rock women who were very vocal against sexism and unequal treatment. I internalized that, and that is the core of my strength. I just held out hope that things would change. And I think, with #MeToo, they have—a little bit. We have a language now to discuss these things. But things are not changing fast enough for me, and that’s why I was motivated to start Luna Composition Lab and why I’m very vocal about these issues—and very motivated to help organizations that show a willingness and a desire to change.

Bostonia: How often do you come across overt discrimination? I’m sure they don’t come out and say, “We’re not booking any women composers this season,” but…

Missy Mazzoli: Even if they’re not saying it, the numbers don’t lie. The kind of gender discrimination and sexism that I’m fighting against is systemic. I’m looking at the reasons we got here and what is perpetuating this very old-fashioned idea today. I’m more interested in that than in getting revenge on the people who have slighted me to my face—which, of course, has happened.

There’re also things I would put in the category of a microaggression. Like, often I get these calls to be part of a season or for a new commission and I’m very excited, and then they say, “Yeah, we really wanted this to be a concert of all women” composers, and my heart sort of sinks. Or, “Yeah, we wanted a woman on this program.” Are you asking me because you like the art or because I’m filling some sort of quota for you? I usually say no once that has been brought up. I don’t think these concerts of all women [composers] are helpful, because you’re still “othering” those women.