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when they go out to ta lk to the ir own people in Arabic, repeat the
mos t ex tremi st, uncompromi sin g slogans of the PLO . There is no
Pales tini a n equi valent to the Israeli Peace Now movemen t.
Goodheart:
Is it because they can't take the ri sk of saying in public
wha t they te ll you in priva te?
Oz:
Well I gues they a re terrorized, but thi s is no excu se for in tel–
lectua ls, a nd I'm deepl y and b it terl y di sappoin ted with those so–
called reasonable Pa les tini a ns who do ta lk sense in priva te conver–
sations, or even when they're interviewed by the
New York Times.
T hey do hin t o r suggest tha t they will accept the idea of pa rtition ,
accept the ex istence of Israel under ce rta in terms a nd a re ready to
negoti ate. The same people, when they talk Arabic to their own
people a re just as ex tremi st as Ara fa t. And to me the onl y thing
tha t ma tters is wha t those people say in Ara bic a nd in public. I
don't give a damn fo r wha t they say to me in priva te conversations.
Goodheart:
Wha t di ffe rence do you think the upcomin g elections will
make?
Oz:
I'm not sure about it , but I think a new gove rnment will return
to the traditi ona l a nd hi storical ma in road of Zioni sm-with deep
respec t fo r reality.
Goodheart:
Whi ch you don't think the present government has.
Oz:
No . I think the present gove rnment puts stress in the wrong
place. They a re obsessed with the history, with the biblical pas t ,
with hi storical ri ghts, whi ch I respec t, and I can even agree to
their concept of the hi storical ri ghts of the J ews over every inch of
Pales tine, but they lack the respect for reality, they lack the tradi–
tiona l Zioni st wisdom of apprec ia ting correctl y wha t is the balance
of power and wha t can be done and wha t cannot be done.
Goodheart:
On the o ther hand , Shimon Peres (leader of the Labor
pa rty) is regarded as a n opportuni st, a man for all seasons, some–
one who has such an ove rwhelming respec t fo r reality tha t the
sense of principle is not ve ry strong in him . I'm used to the
medioc rity in American politics, but I'm surpri sed when
journa lists seem to say the same thing about Israeli politics. And
when you think of Israel as a n heroic society , there's a sense of
puzzlement about how thi s could be.
Goodheart:
Well look, I'm not terribly eage r to discuss Pe res person–
all y in thi s pa rti cul a r interview , but in general the Labor party
does represent a pragma tic, cauti ous, pa tient tradition . It's
perha ps a confli ct be tween two kinds of roma nticism , because
obviously Labor Zionists or modera tion Zioni sts a re in their own
way romanti cs . But the difference between the Labor pa rty and
the present government is a difference between a mature, sober ,
