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between hi s work as a libra ri a n during the day, a nd researches in
compa ra tive lite ra ture . H e wrote a few books on compa ra tive
litera ture, European litera ture, a t ni ght. My pa re nts used to talk
to me about the vi sion ofJ erusalem becoming one day a real city.
It took me quite a long time to dec ipher wha t they really meant by
"real." By "real," of course, they meant "European ," with cathedrals
a nd thi ck fo rests round about , a nd perhaps a river in the middl e.
So, to ome exte nt , thi s is the background for tha t rema rk.
Goodheart:
So the longin g tha t the immi gra nt from Leipzig feels is the
longing of your gra ndfa ther, but why would it be the lon ging of
somebody who had been born a nd ra ised in J eru salem ?
Oz:
I guess my grandpa rents a nd my pa rents wrote the script , so
maybe I go t some of it into my ge nes . I first went to Europe fa irly
la te in my life, I was thirty whe n I first left Israe l. For the first time
in my life I saw fir trees a nd snow , a nd go thic a rchitec ture, and
heard the church bells, a nd had the fee ling I'd been the re befo re .
Goodheart:
T he H as idic zeal ots of Mea Shearim say tha t the troubl e
with Zioni sm a nd the troubl e with contempora ry Israel is that
they confu se the actua l J eru salem with spiritu al J eru salem a nd
tha t you have to wa it fo r the M ess ia h
to
come for the real
J erusalem to ex ist.
Oz:
Oh , the whole business is not tha t clear a nd unambiva lent to
me . J eru salem means va ri ous thin gs to vari ous people, as you
know . It means va ri ous thin gs to me. It's my na ti ve city - I was
born there. And yet I recall the J eru salem of my childhood as a
stra nge fe dera ti on , vague federa ti on of diH'e rent communities,
fa iths, backgrounds - it was full of luna ti cs.
Goodheart:
You ha ve said somewhere tha t it's a place ofluna ti c dreams.
Oz:
Every second J eru salemite, whe n I was a kid , must have been a
potenti a l M essia h , a redeeme r . Each one had hi s or he r persona l
formul a fo r insta nt uni ve rsal redempti on .
Goodheart:
To shift the perspec ti ve a little, the visitor coming to J eru–
salem is stimul a ted by the biblical pas t a nd by Israe l's immedi a te
heroic pas t. Israe l seems like a n heroic society. Bu t I would
imagine th a t the hero ism would become oppress ive fo r people
ac tuall y li vin g in I rae
I.
Somebody says, I think in
The H ill
oj
Evil
Counsel,
th a t we are the heirs of prophe ts, kings, and heroes . I
picked up M oshe Dayan's book on the Bible the othe r d ay. He
ma kes a compa ri son there between Ben G uri on a nd M oses .
There's some bas is in reali ty fo r tha t kind of compa ri son , but isn't
there also a d a nge r of self-infla ti on a nd self-ri ghteousness?
Oz:
R eality has a t leas t a doubl e ed ge fo r the Israe lis. I woul d say
there is a fasc ina tin g diH'e rc nce between day time Israel a nd noc-
