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crux o f the ma tter is the Israeli -Pa les tini a n conflict, a nd here the
onl y way out is a ad acce pta nce o f realities whi ch we re totall y
excluded from the Zioni st vi sion a nd still a re tota ll y excluded from
Pa les tini a n consciousness .
Goodheart:
Wha t realities?
Oz:
The fac t tha t he re in thi s small country there a re two diffe rent
na ti onal communities, not just reli g ious or cultural communities,
two diffe re nt na ti ona l entities ex ist - a nd mu st coexi st.
Goodheart:
Does tha t mean self-rule fo r the Pales tini a ns?
Oz:
It means pa rtiti oning the country, a nd I'm no t ta lking ri ght now
about the bounda ries, I'm no t drawing a map. 1 ha t is irreleva nt
a t the mome nt because the Palestini a ns ri ght now a re not ready
for such a n agreeme nt. But I do beli eve tha t the onl y way out , a t
leas t in the near future, is a pa rtition . Not tha t I'm in love with the
idea o f little na tiona l sta tes. When I listen to the brillia nt a nti–
Zioni st a rgume nt s o f George Steiner or oam C homsky, to a
ce rta in degree I e nvy these people. T heirs is a simple wo rld . We
hea r those people one way o r a nothe r cla iming tha t the J ews a re
des tined
to
be the vitamin , the fertili ze r , the stimul a to r o f Wes tern
civili zati on , a nd as such they should be scatte red - tha t's their way
to ma ke a "contributi on ," wha teve r they mean by thi s. Ste ine r said
once tha t J ews crea ting a lillie indepe ndent sta te feel to him like
a n old ma n in a kinde rgarten . I share hi s fee ling. I'm not a t a ll in
love with the adolesce nt toys o f na ti onhood - wav ing fl ags a nd so
on . I could eve n sha re Steine r's o r C homsky's or whoeve r's vision
of a wo rld in whi ch the re a re perha ps one hundred civ ili za ti ons,
not sin gle na ti on- sta tes. But I do no t wa nt a nd I do no t acce pt the
role of be ing the ete rna l pionee r o f the nex t phase o f world hi story.
A long as eve ryone else has loc ks on hi s doors a nd ba rs on hi s
windows a nd machine guns a nd ta nks a nd a irpl a nes, I'm go ing to
pl ay the blood y game acco rdin g to the blood y rules. The vi sion of
the J ew ' as e te rna l pionee rs o f a multin a ti ona l or non na ti onal o r
pos tna ti ona lis ti c world is some thing whi ch I think I cannot a ffo rd ,
not a ft e r Auschwitz. I'd be deli ghted to be the third one in the
neighborhood or the tifth one in the world to j oin such a n
arra ngeme nt a nd abolish na ti on-s ta tes a ltoge the r . But I'm not
going to rema in the e terna l pio nee r o f the nex t phase o f wo rld
hi story. We J ews have pl ayed thi s role fo r ve ry long . Some have
admired us fo r thi s, some persecuted us. Nobody fo ll owed . Hence
my
Zioni sm , A to Z, in a nutshell.
Goodheart:
Wha t docs Israe l have to do to make the Ara bs o r the
Palestini a ns acce pt thi s fac t? Let's say Israel gives up the Wes t
Ba nk a nd Pa les tini a n self-rule is es tabli shed there . Would tha t
