MELVIN M. TUMIN
559
monl y sa id, fo r better o r fo r worse, th a t th e g rea t p ro blem of man y
pa inters today is tha t no one knows wha t
to
pa int a bout. Yo u
recognize tha t sta tement, of course.
R osen berg:
Yes.
Tumin:
Wha t's you r response to tha t sta tement?
R osenberg:
I agree with it. Ba rney Newman kept say ing over and over
aga in tha t the impo rtant thing fo r the arti st today is
w hal to
paint.
To pi ck one's subj ect, th a t's the impo rtant thin g.
T umin:
No , I don ' t mean th a t. I mean tha t they don 't know wha t
to
pa int. No t th a t tha t isn 't the impo rtant ques ti on a lways for an a rti st.
But peopl e cha rac teri ze thi s peri od as being one in whi ch a ll
previous things to pa int abo ut have been exha usted .
R osen berg:
Th ey sa id tha t in the fo rties and tha t's wh y Ba rney made
tha t hi s slogan .
T umin:
But do you think tha t's so, tha t a ll prev ious things have been
exh au sted and th a t pa inters do n ' t know wha t to pa int abo ut? No t
tha t it isn 't impo rtant fo r th em
to
care about wha t to paint abo ut,
but tha t they don 't know wha t to paint about?
R osen berg:
T h ey never knew. An a rti st has to decide thi s ques tion .
T umin:
So thi s is no t a specia l dil emma o f the arti st today. It 's no
more poi gn ant, no r mo re press ing today than ever before.
R osen berg:
Well , in the thini es the qu es ti on was, " Is th e artist
supposed
to
pa int the cl ass struggle?" Then somebody sa id, " No,
you 're no t supposed to pa int th e cl ass struggle, you ' re supposed
to
paint th e whea t fi elds of Idaho." Then somebody else sa id , "No,
you ' re supposed
to
pa int legends o f Ameri ca, like Benton ." This has
a lways been the ques ti o n . When you decide tha t ques ti on , you decide
a ll th e o ther ques ti ons tha t go with it.
T umin :
So th e painter of today is in no wo rse situa ti on with rega rd
to
tha t than ever before.
R osen berg:
No.
It
has a lways been a g rea t mystery of modern times as
to wha t to p aint. The modern world broke th e academic certa inty
about wha t to pa int. Choos in g the subj ect became a kind of def ini–
tion of the modern. The modern is tha t you pa int rea lity, wha tever
tha t means. Every new movement has come u p as a new fo rm of
rea li sm . All movements, including the Ba uhau s, a lways say, Real–
ism. Wh at is rea lism? Wha t's to pa int ? Wha t's impo rtant?
T umin:
So, if I were go ing
to
sum up , I would say tha t, leav ing aside
those virtues of the peri ods of homogen eity o f culture, and primiti ve
cultures of whi ch you 've ta lked , tha t, in some sense, the situa ti on of
