552
PARTISAN REVIEW
th an some o th er soci eti es? Tha t's a very seri o us qu esti on, beca use it 's
quite o bvi ous tha t the socia l conditi on s tha t a re bes t suited
to
a n are
those whi ch produ ce a to ta l socia l coheren ce. Primitive societi es,
medi eva l European soc iety, th e tra nsiti on a l soc iety from medi eval
into a freer soc iety. All th ese a re good becau se va lues a re well–
eSla bl ished.
T umin:
Wh y is th a t good ?
R osenberg:
Grea t an h as been p rodu ced in th ose soc ieti es - such as
ancient Egypti an and Ba bylo nian . T hese a re soc ieti es tha t produced
grea t an under conditi ons o f slavery or near slavery. And in Afri ca
and o ther p re-industri a l societies, the a rts fl o uri sh as a n everyday
activit y. It 's o bviou s now, in the la te twenti eth century, th a t thi s is
compl etely va lid an . We' re no t talking a bo ut some kind o f clumsy
whilllin g. T hi s is grea t a rt tha t comes o ut o f Afri ca and p re–
Columbi an Ameri can sources.
T umin:
Yo u rea ll y wan t
to
u se th e word s "grea t an ?"
R osenberg:
I don 't want to u se th e wo rd s g rea t a n , but th ere's no doubt
tha t it's an art th at deserves th e hi gh es t res pect. We do n ' t know
eno ugh a bout it, and if we u se the wo rd "grea t" we' re being fooli sh ,
beca use we don ' t kn ow wh a t the measure is.
T umin:
So your u se of the wo rd "grea t" was a slip.
R osen berg:
Yes, I would say I don ' t know how to measure a Benin
scul p ture aga inst Mi ch elangelo. I don ' t know wh a t kind o f a lin e
to
draw. But, I will say th a t a ll those con cep ts o f an , the vill age ... I
mean , thi s is wha t you get fro m the anthro po li g ists who keep tellin g
you tha t, if you want to h a ve g rea t work you h a ve to have a coherent
society. We' ve heard it from
T.
S. Eli o t; we' ve h ea rd it from neo–
Ca tho lics; we've h ea rd from a ll kinds o f p eop le th a t a di sciplin ed,
un animou s society will produce the bes t wo rk. We've heard thi s a lso
from avant ga rde arti sts, from con structi vists. We' ve hea rd thi s, as
I've sa id before, from Mondri an . Yo u h a ve
to
h a ve, in o ther word s, a
to ta l society. No pri va te life, as Mondri a n put it. Get rid o f pri va te
life. Put everythin g in p ublic squa res, and you'll have a bi g square.
Yo u 'll h ave a ni ce, well-wrou ght recta ng le, ri g ht? Now, wh a t's the
ma ller with tha t idea? It's a very powerful idea . It keep s coming up
in an all the time.
It
h as a lo tto do with tha t idea of imperson a lit y,
and reduction of the individua l. Tha t's th e on e thing. Get rid of th e
individua l, and you 'll have g reat an, spiritua lit y, soc ia l coheren ce,
communi ca ti on , everything. Just get rid of tha t one lilli e bedbug.
T umin:
But no on e sa id
to
Mi chelangelo, get rid of your bedbug.
R osen berg:
T h a t wasn ' t their probl em . Their probl em was to become
mo re bedbuggy th an ever. They were breakin g
out
of somethin g.
