MELVIN M. TUMIN
553
Humanism was breaking out o f those di sciplin es a nd into th e beli ef
in the individu a l. We' re living in a peri od when th e individua l has
become a suspen ch aracter. After a ll , who commits crimes? Di ssa ti s–
fi ed indi vidu a ls. Do away with individua ls, a nd you won ' t h ave an y
criminals. Do away with indi vidua ls, a nd you won ' t have an y socia l
d isrupti on. YOll don ' t ha ve a ll kinds o f things. In the prop aga nda o f
Communi sm , the individua l is the ha ted elemenL. No t onl y Com–
munism , the who le indu stri a l sys tem ha tes the individua l. The
indu stri a l sys tem is no t gea red
lO
providing you with wh a t you want ,
it's geared to p rov idin g you , as a con sumer, with wh a t it ma kes. So
you ' ve got all th ese fo rces aga in st th e individua l. He's th eonl y thin g
tha t preven ts th e techn o log ica l soluti on from ha vin g va lidi ty. Bu t
we' ve a lread y contran ed thi s di sease.
T wnin:
Whi ch di sease?
R osenberg:
T h e di sease of indi vidua lity. \Ve' ve had it , accordin g to
some p eopl e, fo r 700 yea rs. Acco rding to o thers. it goes back as fa r as
th e Greeks; to still o th ers, back to Abrah am . There is the traditi o n
th a t th ere is such a thin g as being an individua l. We can ' t be happy
fo r some reason unl ess we'w go t something to do with iL.
T limin:
In tha t period g rea t wo rk s of a rt h ave occurred?
R osenberg:
Yo u ha ve
lO
ha ve th a t kind o f a n in o rder
to
sa ti sfy th at
res idual organi sm , the individua l. There will be no art o f an y
impo rtan ce o r interes t without the decay in g organi sm calkd th e
indi vidua l.
T umin:
Are you say ing, th en, th a t the kind o f society we ha ve now, fo r
a ll its pressures toward homogen eit y, fo r a ll th e das ta rdl y pressu res
o f the medi a. is n evertheless extrem ely ri ch in its poss ibiliti es fo r an
precisely because o f th e g rea t stress on individu a lit y that al so
accompa ni es th e contra ry stress?
R osenberg:
Th ere is no stress o n indi vidua lity.
T umin:
But you are a lso say ing th a t we h ave contraned th e di sease,
whi ch is a way of say ing th a t ma n y of u s refu se
lO
be o nl y ro bo ts, o r
onl y automa tons.
R osenberg:
Look, some p eopl e can get very enthusiasti c a bollt se lf–
immo la ti on , and
lO
get rid of their liLLI e bit of person a lit y a ffo rd s
them a tremendou s sa ti sfani on. Confo rmi sm is the bi gges t fo rce in
our society today. You know tha L.
T um in:
There ha s n ever been a society, however, in whi ch th ere ha ve
been so man y different sub-cultures
to
whi ch you could confo rm ,
a nd in whi ch , in effect, so much non- confo rmity, so much devi a ti on ,
h as been permiLLed .
R osen berg:
By permiLLed. you mean wha t? Yo u don ' t get locked up?
