MELVIN M. TUMIN
549
fashi o n , whi ch
111
turn h as a very strong effect on masses o f p eopl e,
pa intin g h as been 'very influ ent ia l sin ce th e wa r. All you h ave to do is
to look a t fa bri c des ign and interi o r des ign .
T wnin:
All ri ght , let's go beyond th a t and ta lk a bout po liti cal con–
sCIousn ess.
R osenberg:
No , it 's no t poss ibl e th a t these ch anges should no t in turn
h ave an effec t on wh a t people think in gen era l, tha t is to say,
mora ll y.
T umin:
YOll think it h as h ad a n impo rtant effect?
R osenberg:
Of course it has.
T wnin:
Gi ve me a conn ecting link if you can . G ive me a con crete
seri es of conn ecting link s.
R osen berg:
Yo u can ' t do tha t.
If
you try
to
crea te a se t o f causa l links, if
VO ll
try to crea te a cau sa l cha in . you ' re gelling into th e rea lm of the
a bsurd. T he o nl y thin g you can do is show a kind of synchroniza tion
o f cert a in a tti tudes in a rt and litera ture and po litics. Now o f course
we h ave the mass medi a, the effect of a rt on the mass medi a, and the
effect o f the medi a on a rt. Thi s is a mosl impo rta lll lhin g. Yo u
remember I ta lked a bo ul lha l in Stanfo rd . Mos t colllempo rary
di scuss io n s of a rt in rel a li o n lO society a re wo rthl ess becau se lhey
don't la ke into effecl th e rec iproca l press ures of art on th e mass
medi a and th e media on a rt. T he medi a on a rt, becau se il is lhe
pressure o f th e masses on a rt . Let' s say TV ta kes u p pa inlin g.
Immedi a tely, a n a udi en ce o f hundreds of tho usands. They don 'l
know an ythin g a bo ul a n . T h e T V p rogram is made up so lh ey don 'l
h ave to kn ow a n ythin g a bo ul a rt. Of course a terribl e di Slo rti on la kes
pl ace inh erentl y. T h e arti sl lends to co ll a bo ra le in lhi s becau se he' s
deli ghled to h ave such a huge a udi ence. Peopl e are looking a l hi s
pa intings which a re reproduced , o f course in a lo ta ll y fa lsifi ed way,
o n the TV screen . So you ge t a conSla lll intercha nge of fa lsifi ca lions,
o f stupid ideas, o f cli ch es, a ll we ighing on th e a n wo rld . The
situ ati on today is fantas ti c. Every weekend I receive in the ma il a t
leasllwo anno un cemelllS by ga ll eri es I' ve never heard of befo re. The
number of o pera ting a n ga ll eri es is inconce iva bl e to me. The
Po indexter Ga ll ery, whi ch is twellly o r twellly-five yea rs old , fo lded
up th e o ther week. But the same day a t leas t four n ew ga ll eri es
spra ng into view.
T um in:
I can see the influen ce on ga ll eri es, and cu stomers and
p ubli cs. Do you see tha t influen ce from the medi a bein g exen ed and
res ponded to in an y seri ou s way by peopl e whom you would
con sider serio u s artists?
