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greater dislike of the regime. That is why in the official Soviet
press, in
Pravda,
and in all the other Soviet papers, there are
daily articles criticizing consumption and distribution, and
complaining that such and such a product can't be found. This
shows that the Soviet leaders are obliged to open a valve in order
to deal with these dissatisfactions. I was struck that Mr.
Andropov, in his first speech, didn't sound very different from
Brezhnev about international affairs or East-West relations. But
he talked seriously about economic problems, and he has begun to
establish sanctions and to eliminate certain people in charge of
agriculture, the railroads, the ministry of the interior-that is, in
areas directly influencing people's day-to-day lives.
Kurzweil:
Yes, you may be right. But what concerns France and
America at this moment is to avert, if not a war, then any sort of
"explosion." So when you say that France will both go along
and stand alone, I wonder how this will work out in the long
run, especially in view of your commitment to the European
Community. The Germans, as you know, have completely
different ideas. As long as you believe in strong deterrence and
they want disarmament, don't you foresee a possible "explo–
sion," or at least some difficulties?
Estier:
But the Germans are very much interested in deterrence and
peaceful coexistence.
It
was the Germans who, at the time when
Willy Brandt was chancellor of West Germany, took the first steps
in the direction of the Soviet Union.
Kurzweil:
Yes. But you are talking about detente only.
Estier:
In Germany today there is a Right government. Even at the
time of detente when Schmidt was chancellor, he continued to
have relations with the Soviet leaders, although the French–
including the French Socialists-had put the brakes on such
relations. I think that Germany is very much interested in good
relations with the Soviet Union, even more than France, because
Germany, in the heart of Europe, would be the first to suffer the
consequences of a conflict. Also, Germany remains a divided
country and therefore is interested in maintaining the dialogue
with the other Germany.
Kurzweil:
One hears in America and also in France that this had
been the case but that now there is less and less contact between
the two Germanys, as the older generation is dying. In effect,
there are now two countries with two different economies, with
