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there are some permanent problems in the relations between
France and the United States; and then , there is the question of
coming to terms with the policies of this American president.
Kurzweil:
Well , then, how do you see these permanent problems?
Estier:
One could also pose the question in reverse : Americans might
also have a different opinion depending on who is president in
France. But there are permanent problems. In this context, our
position is extremely clear. France belongs to · the Atlantic
alliance, in the broad sense. And France is totally committed to it,
though it dropped out of the military organization of this alliance
a long time ago.
It
was General DeGaulle who withdrew France
from NATO. We have our own means of defending our
country-the French power of deterrence, which is an autono–
mous entity, and yet is included and integrated in the Western
forces . We do not want to be in a state of dependence on the
United States . We are reliable, but independent allies. And when
the United States-since this is the problem that has come up
most recently-decided to impose on its Western allies a number
of agreements, such as the conditions of commerce or exchange
with the Eastern countries and the Soviet Union, we refused,
because we have no reason to receive directives or instructions
from America; and we have no reason to accept things that are in
the American interest but that don't coincide with ours . For
now-and this changes nothing in our very severe judgment of
the Soviet Union ' s policies-we feel that it is in the best interests
of France to have a certain type of exchange with the Soviet
Union. This explains the gas contract, the whole history of the
Euro-Siberian pipeline ; it explains the contracts some French
enterprises currently have with the Soviet Union. Besides ,
American policy is very hypocritical: while it would like to keep
its allies from dealing with the Soviet Union, the United States
delivers large amounts of grain and cereals-vital products given
Russian agricultural problems .
Because Franc;:ois Mitterand is now president of the
republic, he has perhaps been a bit more frank and direct than
before. So his policies seem anti-American : they are not. I believe
he told Mr. Schultz on his recent visit that we are very loyal and
true allies of the United States and of Western Europe . But we are
an independent country with our own interests .
Kurzweil:
Well, first of all, I would say that not every American
