EURO-COMMUNISM
23
the union movement, which is particularly important in Italy. The
unions were for a time the interlocutor of the government.
There are all kinds of complications which it seems to me make
even these parties not work according to the model of the rigid
central structure, simply changing doctrine at will.
It
does not
happen that eas ily.
William Phillips:
We are asking a few peop le to start the discussion.
We are structuring the discussion. And I am adding you to the list,
Barbara.
Barbara Solomon:
How do you meet, Norman, the problem that you
now have in Spain, where the Communist party is clearly not the
slightest big monolithi c, where the lead ing Communist intellectuals
are already, since it is Euro-Communist, out of the Party? In other
words, it is still structured in its post-Stalinist phase, and that is not
speaking about the Lister Communists, who were Stalinists. The
ones who we would consider Euro-Communists are out of the Party,
and in the recent elections, all the young Communists went out of
the Party, complaining that it was bureaucratic. There were certain
incidents there, such as the arrest that took place by the Communist
party of people who showed the Republican flag. All this irritated
the young leftists . In other words, now that it is called Euro–
communism, a disintegrating situation already exists, I mean one
that we already know something about. This dilemma is not that
secret.
William Phillips:
Okay, I have prevailed on both of them not to
answer now so that we can let other peopl e talk. Incidentally, I
should say that we thought that we might get Carrillo here tonight
and subject him to cross-examination. Apparently he is in the
country secretly.
It
was impossible
to
find out where he is.
Walter Laqueur:
It shows you how rigid they still are.
Wilham Phillips:
We have a list of people here who have agreed to
start the discussion. I don't care in what order you want to speak.
And whoever wants
to
speak first is free to start: Michael Ledeen,
Kenneth Maxwell , Jane Kramer, Richard Sennett, Carl Gershmann,
Bruce Miller, Richard Howard, Blair Clark, Andrew Arata. Who
would like to start? Okay, you have
to
go to see Carrillo in New
Haven?
Bruce Miller:
Yes, he will be there on Friday.
William Phillips:
This is Bruce Mill er, who teaches at Yale.
Bruce Miller:
Yes, just for the time being. I am struck by the fact that
we have a whole collection of Australians, Americans, and English-
