EURO-COMMUNISM
21
William Phill ips:
One o ther ques ti on . I ga ther tha t Wa lter Laqueur
thinks tha t if a Eu ropean Communi st pa rty ent ered th e government,
it would streng then th e pos iti on of the Soviet Uni on . Do I under–
stand you correctl y to say th a t you think it would weaken the
pos ition of the Sovi et Uni on vis-a-vis Europe?
Norman Birnbaum:
I th'ink there is a t leas t as much of a chan ce tha t it
would wea ken it as strength en it. T he French Communist pa rty's
foreign poli cy is no t much d ifferent from the Gaulli st foreign po li cy
it foll owed . Italy is milita ril y weak and of no use to N.A.T.O. a t a ll.
Wi lliam Ph illips:
All ri ght. Wa lter.
Walter L aqueur:
I am a liLLi e skepti ca l. I do n 't think tha t much can be
done in any case. Mi stakes can be made. T ha t is tru e. Bu t no thing
much of influence o ne way or ano ther. You sa id it would be
unrea listi c fo r an hi sto ri an to expect changes overni ght. But after a ll ,
thi s is no t overni ght. I wrote an a rticl e about T ogli a tti in
Foreign
Affairs
in 1957, and I am sorry to say I was mo re optimi sti c than I am
now. Twenty yea rs is no t overni ght.
You may be absolutely ri g ht tha t the French Party may aga in
change in three or six month s from now, but wha t kind o f change
will it be? A change decided upon by two o r three peopl e on top .
These changes we have seen . Now, however, my ma in po int .. . I do
no t deny fo r a moment tha t there have been quite impo rtant changes
in Euro pean communi sm. But to the ex tent tha t there have been
such changes, th e ma in motive has been no t libera li sm , but na ti ona l–
ism. And it is perfectIy tru e tha t the French Pa rty, th e Romani an
Party, and the Spani sh Party a re after a ll heirs of long cultura l
traditi on s. Wh y should they be run by some Moscow commi ssa r?
T hese peopl e want autonomy. They want mo re independence.
Wi lliam Ph ill ips:
T hey want to have their own commi ssa rs.
Wa lter L aqueur:
Absolutely. However, you menti oned the [act tha t
French Communi st fo reign poli cy is Gaulli sl. Well , bi g deal. Wha t
you can get in Europe is a kind of Romani an- style communism ,
whi ch is, I am sorry to say, in some res pects worse th an Sov iet
communi sm. I genera ll y think th a t one of the redeeming factors of
communi sm is its interna ti ona li sm. But thi s intern a ti onalism is now
going. And in stead we get, bo th in the West and the Eas t, a kind o f
new nati ona l socia lism. I don 't think thi s is much progress.
And thi s is true by the way, no t onl y with regard to France and
Spain , but even littl e Iceland. As fa r as I know Iceland is the onl y
country where a Communi st pa rty has rea ll y converted itself in to a
left-wing Socia li st party. But in the p rocess it has become far ri ght-
