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R osenberg:
It can lend itself to an ything.
T umin:
Then wha t is the " it" tha t lends itself?
PARTISAN REVIEW
R osenberg:
Tha t's very simple. T here is a human aCli VIly tha t h as
been go ing on traditi onall y for 30,000 yea rs, and tha t activity is
therefore well known to human beings, and they call it art.
T umin:
Wha t characteri zes that activity and distingui shes it from
o ther acti vities?
R osenberg:
Well , for one t.hin g, as they u sed to say about th e herrin g,
you hang it on the wa ll.
T umin:
Yeah , but we know tha t the herring is no t green and doesn 't
whi stl e.
R osen berg:
Tha t is very o ften true abo ut paintings, too. But it doesn 't
p revent them from hang ing on the wa ll , any more than the herring.
T ha t is, you can hang an y p ictu re on the wa ll. Yo u can a lso have
social acceptan ce of certa in kinds of images as t.h e onl y kinds of
paintings tha t are worthwhil e, as in the Sovi et Uni on , where th ey
carry certain messages.
T um in:
But now you 've taken us very far from the Baudela ire sta te–
ment of the conditi ons of arl. Granted they' re no t sufficient condi–
ti ons. Still , they are fa r mo re di scrimina ting and restri cti ve than
wha t you 're now all ow ing a rt to be.
R osenberg:
Don 't forget tha t he sa id pure a rl.
T umin:
Well , let's leave pure a rt ...
R osen berg:
Well , wa it a minute. The reason wh y I return ed to th e
word pure is tha t he thereby implied tha t onl y a certa in kind o f art
achi eved those conditi on s. He p ut in the word pure. [wouldn 't use
tha t word. You could substitute the word authenti c, if you like, or
anything else. But the po int of th e ma tter is he leaves room with tha t
adj ecti ve for all kinds of o ther an in which those conditi o ns a re no t
mel. It's obvious, then , if anybody knows an ything a bo ut the hi story
of a rt, that. a grea t dea l o f an was made in sho ps with sho p
techniques. In eighteenth century France there was an eno rmo us
production o f sculpture for esta tes.
T umin:
For you , then , the word art does no t necessa ril y conno te
anything about excell ence o r va lue or worth . You 're say in g tha t it is
an acti vity in whi ch a ll kinds o f people a t all leve ls of skill or non–
skill can parti cipa te fo r a ll kinds of purposes. However ugly o r foul
the purposes may be, somethin g call ed a rt may serve a ll those
purposes or may be u sed fo r all tha t.
R osenberg:
Yes, I think tha t's correcl. Because o therwise you get in a
pos iti on where th e def inition would include its own va lua ti on . T ha t
