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upo n the sceIl e. He u sed to come to the ga ll ery, and I showed him
Li chtenstein 's wo rk , at one po il1l, when it appea red , and h e was very
very interes ted . He liked it very much and thought it was a ma rvelo us
devcl opmel1l tha t was occurring in a direction tha t he had don e so
much to p romo te.
lJ iamollstein:
In 1957, the first two a rti sts tha t you sign ed up exclu –
sivel y were j o hns and Ra usch enberg?
Castell i:
Yes. Tha t's true.
f) ul1nonstein:
Well , how did tha t come a bo ut ? Wha t is it tha t made the
Cas tell i ga ll ery di ffe rent from o ther ga ll eri es?
Castelli:
Well , I wo uldn 't want to boas t a bout wha t ma kes it different.
I wo uld tentatively say tha t I a lways had a hi sto rica l viewpo int, tha t
I was interes ted in continuing the grea t tradi tio n tha t the Museum o f
Modern Art had begun o f reall y a na lyzing pa inters and movements,
a thin g tha t had no t been don e in Fran ce, where a ll these pa inters
came from.
f) iamonstein:
Wh o were the pa inters tha t were represented in the
ga llery?
Castelli:
Well , I was con sciou s after coming to this coulllry in 1941-
and I fU'st went to the Museum o f Modern Art-tha t something was
happening there tha t had n ever ha p pened in Europe. I saw that
Alfred Ba rr, who was chi efl y respon sibl e for the cho ices and the
structure o f the museum, h ad assembl ed the arti sts-Pi casso, Ma–
ti sse, Arp, and Bra ncu si-who h ad reall y in vented something tha t
was new. So, fo r instan ce, fo r the fir st time in my life I saw Mo ndria n ,
a nd even mo re su rprisin g. Kl ee, who was n ' t a t a ll rep resented in
ElIlo ])c. They didn ' t know a bo ut him in Fra nce, strange ly, whereas
th ey kll cw Kandinsky, but onl y hi s las t peri od . T hi s was the flfsttime
I fo und o ut wha t modern a rt was a bo ut , and ha ving fo und out, I
tho ught I would continue the wo rk of the museum and try to find o ut
whCl e an was go ing from thi s po illt. We a ll knew Abstract Expres–
sio llists and I was invo lved with a ll the arti sts o f tha t group , de
Koon in g , Ro thko, Kline, a nd so on , but thi s was a movement tha t I
could no t rea ll y dea l with because they were a ll a t the j ani s ga ll ery,
and Sidney too k ca re o f th em . So I wanted to continue from there.
Well , wha t was go ing to come a fter Abstract Expressio ni sm ? T h ere
were lots of fo ll owers and they were a ll just repea ting, mecha ni ca ll y
a lmos t, the gestures tha t rea ll y h ad meaning in the o thers. And wh en
I o pmed my ga llery I had to put toge ther a sta ble, a nd that is by no
Ill ca ns easy. An acc ident he lped a g rea t dea l there, a nd tha t acc iden t,
in my ca rcer, was the appea ran ce of Ra uschenberg a nd j o hns.
