Students Talk about Peace Talks

There are 13 comments on Students Talk about Peace Talks

1. Face worldwide reality, learn the lesson and implement it.

   Every group of people prefers to be governed by their own.
   Artificial boarders or imposed boarders are major reasons to conflicts.
   Open your eyes and brain to the world wide reality!
   Arabs governed by Arabs- Jews governed by Israel

   Examples:
   Canada-French want their state: Belgian Flames want separations. Basques in Spain.
   Czechoslovakia partition in 2 states
   Irish and Scotts want independence from UK .
   Tibet and China.
   The many wars in Africa because tribes have been separated or united by Europeans in artificial state.
   Kashmir- Cyprus- Kurds in Turkey and Iraq.
   The Balkan wars.
   The former USSR dissolving into many states and current wars in Russia.

   Avoid future similar conflicts while defining boarders between the Jewish Israel and the Arab Palestine.

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2. I would like to invite anyone who is interested in this subject, to join weekly discussions between Arabs and Israelis on campus at AIPA.

   The Arab Israeli Peace Alliance meets every Tuesday at the basement of the GSU at 8pm. In it Arab and Israeli BU students talk about the conflict and about solutions.

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3. Go Freehoff!

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4. Thank you, BU Today, for finally allowing both sides of this conflict on your website!
   I thought your coverage last year was heavily zionist (article on Noam Chomsky event entitled “Chomsky Rails on Israel, Again” for example)– so this article including both sides is greatly welcomed!

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5. Israel’s “freeze” didn’t included thousands of housing units in the west bank and it didn’t include East Jerusalem at all. There is no way anyone would or should consent to holding peace talks while another group is actively stealing their land.

   Without a formal cessation of building, housing evictions, and housing demolitions, these talks are meaningless. The settler population doubled in the period from the beginning of the Oslo talks to the Camp David talks. Talks by themselves arent a guarentee to peace and Israel feels no desire to give away much because it is more powerful.

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6. Thank you Mercurio for admitting that until that day comes, when the Palestinians are a majority, the comparison to apartheid is false, but even today the palestinians have their own elected leaders- the PA and Hamas and are not being ruled as second class citizens in a country, Israel does not claim that gaza held by Hamas nor the parts of the west bank controlled by the PA are a part of israel and Arab-Israelis live as full citizens with all the same rights as Jewish Israelis. In addition, distinctions must be made between different settlements, ones that have been incorporated into israel, such as the Gush Etzion region and others, which are less permanent settlements. Finally, if it is clear that each group should rule their own, and israelis would have to leave the “Palestinian” state, why would arabs who are not israeli citizens and never were, be allowed to be in israel. israelis have to EVACUATE their homes but palestinians should leave their homes, in gaza, jordan, syria, Lebanon and the west bank to enter israel?

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7. re “By 2015, the populations of the West Bank and Gaza will be equal to that of Israel.”

   – That level of overpopulation is a tragedy in the making, no matter what government is in power and how that power is wielded.

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8. Though I love that both sides are represented in this article (well done BU Today!) its a bit of a shame that the participants did not get to respond to each other, though I realize that would make for an incredibly lengthy article ;)

   Some thoughts for Freehoff and BUSI:

   On the issue of borders:
   You say you would be scared to have Syria so close to you and your family. So, if I understand correctly- the Palestinian people should have their state decreased, manipulated and their borders determined because of something another country may or may not do (when is the last time Syria attacked Israel?) Israel should deal with Syria if and when that issue arises instead of preemptively detracting from a future Palestinian state whose borders, to me, seem pretty clear.

   On settlements:
   Don’t kid yourself into thinking that these settlements just so happened to be built on land that was already a “demilitarized zone”. The Israelis have a freedom to declare, at will, any land they choose as a closed military zone with no reasons given and no appeal allowed. They use this to justify and build illegal outposts/settlements, demolish homes/villages, suppress dissent/protests, etc etc etc

   The most problematic statement in this article, to me, is when you say,
   “These settlements have been around for the last 17 years, and the Palestinians still held talks with Israel while that happened. I’m interested to know why that suddenly has become such a big issue.” This is not just another one of those issues that Israel can pass off as a fait accompli. It cannot violate international law and then keep the spoils because its been “too long”. Remember the Palestinians are a people who have been waiting for their land back for 62 years.

   You say “If” there are settlements in Arab towns? Start by evacuating Hebron, where there are cages above Palestinian homes to keep the settlers (who live above) from throwing bricks/chairs/glass/whatever they can find. They’ve taken to throwing human waste instead. 800 settlers surrounded by 30,000 Palestinian citizens and the settlers still have freedom of movement and protection while the Palestinians are restricted and assaulted. A sovereign Palestinian state can not be expected to include settlements like the ones in and around Hebron (which is the largest city n the West Bank) Starting to see why its a big deal?

   On refugees:
   There are 4.7 million Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the West Bank/Gaza. These aren’t exactly rich countries to begin with. Yes, there are several very problematic political issues that stand in the way of these countries helping this massive population of refugees. But regardless, the economic resources to help and integrate these refugees into the respective host country, simply doesn’t exist.

   On Jerusalem:
   Not everyone can go to Jerusalem. Palestinians who do not have a Jerusalem ID card must apply for permits (which take time and can be incredibly difficult to get). IF they are lucky enough to be granted a permit, they must go use one of the four crossing alloted to West Bank Palestinians which can take anywhere from 20 minutes to several hours to cross and is subject to closure at any time. Have you ever been through Qalandia checkpoint? Standing next to an old woman in a cage is not something you soon forgot.

   Yes, the Israelis are doing a wonderful job allowing people to visit Jerusalem. You seem to imply that they are the only ones generous enough allow people from all over to visit such a holy place. Or perhaps you are suggesting they are the only ones capable enough to facilitate such a complex system of applying for permits, scanning, questioning, yelling, waiting, sweating, and humiliation.

   I am sorry but Israeli security is NOT the “only concern” as you say. It is certainly of top importance, I am not denying that. But what about basic human rights and dignity for the Palestinian people. Shouldn’t that also be a goal as we head down this path towards peace?

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9. Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is a student organization which was first established at the University of California, Berkeley. The student group’s mission statement states the following: “SJP is a diverse group of students, faculty, staff and community members at, organized on democratic principles to promote justice, human rights, liberation and self-determination for the Palestinian people.” Since it was first established at UC Berkeley, different chapters have established themselves throughout the United States and have continued to grow. There is some dispute as to its origin, as a Students for Justice in Palestine existed at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign since at least 1996.
   Principles

   Most SJP groups believe that while the Palestinian people must ultimately be able to decide their future in what they have deemed “Palestine”, certain key principles, grounded in international law, human rights, and basic standards of justice, are fundamental to a just resolution of the plight of the Palestinians. These include the full evacuation of Jewish occupants from all illegally held Palestinian lands (e.g. various neighborhoods in Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem), the end of the Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem; the implementation of the right of return and repatriation of all Palestinian refugees to their previous homes circa 1948, or those of their ancestors, as well as their properties; an end to Israel’s system of “apartheid” in the “Occupied” Palestinian Territories, as well as what the SJP perceives to be a system of discrimination against the Palestinian population within its own borders.

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10. I would like to answer some questions you raised and clarify a few thigns I said in the interview.

    First of all, Israel is the only country in the history of the world that her own tax money pays for the electricity, and her own doctors and hospitals take care of people that don’t even recognize its existance. Many private and government organizations in Israel have the sole purpose of helping people who live in Gaza and the west bank, while trying to also keep Israeli citizens safe. I believ that is a difficault attempt to be as human as possible in face of the threats Israel is facing. Still, I never denied there is place for improvment. Sadly, the PA in the west bank is too weak, and Hamas is too militant to actually to use aid money to help Palestinians. Mostly Hamas promots incitment, hate and missuses donations for propaganda and weapons.

    I have worked under Arab-Israelis boses and studied and lived with Arab-Israelis. As a part of her job my mother also treats sick Arab-Israeli children and their families. I believe this is enough proof to show that there is no possible way you could ever compare Israel to an aparthied state.

    Second of all just like Palestinians have to get an autherization to go certain places in Israel, so do Israelis themselvs, when going somewhere enatils a security risk. Israel, as any other country, reserves the right to protect itself. Which makes complete sense why there are certain people that are denied access to certain places. If it is non-Israli Palestinians who need to permition to go to Jerusalem, or if it is Israelis who arn’t allowed to go to certain places near the El-Aktza mousqe. People have freedom to pray in Jerusalem, and arab-israelis, as jewish-israelis are welcome to come and go as they like. When Jordan (note: no Palestinian entity) had control over east Jerusalem, they didn’t allow Jews to pray at their most holiest place, and snipers would shoot at any one on the Israeli side as they would walk by the inner city border. Even before Israel was established, Jews had no access to the western wall. The holy area was used as a dump.

    Regarding the settlments; I was wondering not why Palestinians are against the building, but wondering why this has suddenly become an ultimatome for peace negotiations. I believe that matters as such need to be determined through negotiations. Every time Israel has decided to withdraw from land, make sacrifices and evacuate her own citizens from their homes, outside an agreement: the results were more hostilities, not less. Israel is willing to negotiate even though Gilad Shalit, an abducted soldier, has been in un-known conditions of captivity and denied any international supervision for the past 4 years. Both sides need to accept that matteres have to be determined on the negotiation table.

    Regarding the refugees; what makes you think that it would be “easier” for Israel to take into it that multitude of people than it would be for Syria, Lebanon or Jordan? If people are so concerned with the well being of those people, than why doesn’t any humanitarian aid go to those states and those camps to help them??? As I have also mentioned in the interview, the palestinians are the only nation in the world that the UN has decided to give the legal rights of refuges to be carried on from generation to generation for eternity. Not even refugees from much more blodier wars in Africa are given that “luxury”. I wonder what gives palestinians that unequivilant right, that no other nation has.

    Regarding Syria; although the last time it directly started war with Israel was in ’73, I personaly felt the shockwaves of the shells it supplied Hizzballa that fell a few blocks away from my house in 2006. After spending most of my summer in a bomb shelter, I feel that my fear of countries as Syria, that publicly deligitimize Israel and support those words with weapons and funding, is pretty justified.

    I would never overlook the pain that either side is suffering. I hope you don’t either. I know Israel has made many sacrifices on the road to peace, and has many times compromised the security of her own citizens in an attempt to be as human as possible in a war.
    I know what Israel teaches in its education systems, and I know what Hamas teaches children in Gaza. The difference between the two systems causes a situation in which Israeli public seeks peace and is self-criticizing, while palestinian public is taught to hate. This escilation of incitment is extremly dangerous, and a huge obstacle to peace. I hope the PA will become a stronger leadership that can lead the people of the west bank into away from that distructive path, and towrds an Israeli public that wants to end this conflict.

    Freehoff

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11. There are a few things I would like to add to Freehoff’s comments. First of all, I believe she said that in case Hamas wanted Israel to end the peace talks they would only have to cause one terror attack and that would be it. But, I believe that Freehoff wasn’t aware that in the last month the amount of terror attacks grew significantly in order to make Israel back down and stop the peace talks (I do hope you are all aware that they never stopped during the past 9 years.. ).Now despite what you would expect from a country that suffered from 59 terror attack during the month of August (including the 31 rockets that were fired directly on Israeli towns, and the 4 people that were killed and 2 that were hurt during two other terror attacks ), Israel DIDN’T BACK DOWN, she didn’t give up. The Israeli government, and the Israeli nation was strong enough , and had enough belief in the possibility of peace in the middle east, that it decided to keep going and try to reach an agreement. If only the Palestinian side had the same belief of peace as most Israelis do, and if the world would stop automatically defending “poor harmless Palestinians” everything would look different.

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12. Peace talks should start. It is really necessary to evolve our society towards a more balanced society

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13. I don’t think is about people, people do want peace. The problem, like in many countries, is the politicians and those groups that like being in this situation because they can carry on controlling the population and the power. They have been fighting each others for years and the only way they can stop would be if they did like in Berlin, the people took the street and started to destroy the walls, from both sides.

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