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could develop relations with Israel like that of the present Hashemite
monarchy, then I think we could begin to dream about a new Middle
East. Of course, I think that Peres is very much hoping - though I don't
personally believe this is feasible - that something like that could develop
with Syria. This is what Israel presumably is holding out for, a Jordanian–
style peace with Syria rather than an Egyptian one. Personally, I suspect
that the Syrians are not even thinking of an Egyptian-style peace, but of
something much less.
Normalization seems to me a very understandable human wish:an
end to the ceaseless sacrifice; to the kind of demands that living in Israel
places on its citizens, whether in terms of taxation or the number of days
served in the army each year; to the levels of stress and anxiety. The wish
for peace has been a powerful psychological force that has grown, more
so as conditions in the wider world and the immediate environment have
made it look more possible. This desire for normalization is working, po–
litically speaking, in favor of the present government. Hence, Mr.
Netanyahu has adopted a more dovish line in the upcoming elections.
But I think the peace drive ignores quite a number of very important
factors that suggest we are not yet in that kind of a situation. That's what
I was alluding to.
Question:
Mine is a direct follow-up to this question of normalcy, and
whether there is an ideological component in it. Nothing could be more
gladdening than this pragmatic intepretation of the new normalcy, as
building upon the old ideological Zionist one. But it is also may be con–
nected somehow to the claim that Zionism is justified only if it
contributes significantly to the Arab world, which is part of the ideology
of post-Zionism. This is sharpened by the fact that post-Zionism today is
accompanied by a break with Judaism.
It
asserts: We are no longer Jews;
we are people of the land whose fundamental loyalty is not with the Di–
aspora over there, but with the people who live in this land, and we
should make that alliance. Therefore, disillusioned with the immigrants
who do not come from the prosperous countries, we make that alliance
and make peace rather than struggle on for refuge, and immigration, and
homeland.
However, perhaps I am overstressing the theoretical and theological
currents which underlie the more pragmatic elements you have identified.
Robert Wistrich:
It's difficult to know where to begin to unravel
all
the
things you've evoked here. I would say that probably the kind of dis–
course you bring up is part of that ideological and polemical tradition
which increasingly, in Israel itself, is becoming a thing of the past. It's in-
