• Jay Colamaria (COM’15)

    Jay Colamaria (COM’15) Profile

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There are 52 comments on YouSpeak: Should Frats Be Required to Admit Women?

    1. Isn’t it the case that, unlike frats, which can have separate residences off campus for their male members, sororities are forbidden to have off campus housing of their own and thus must be satisfied with the extra difficulties that brings about in organizing themselves? It’s no wonder I don’t hear much about men trying to get in. In any case, that is a law that should be done away with if gender equality is to be properly recognized.

      1. I’m not sure if that was rhetorical, but I’ll answer anyway – no that is not the case.

        No fraternities at BU have residences recognized by the school, so the only “ban” would be imposed by Boston (that archaic brothel law). Clearly, that rule is not enforced so it’s effectively irrelevant. Sororities at other schools (even MIT) have houses just like fraternities…no one’s stopping BU sororities from doing it

    2. From the orientation FAQ page, “There is also one sorority at Wes, but they do not have a sorority house. We also have coed societies. “.

      It looks like the rule is only being applied to the “residential” fraternities, i.e. the ones that have a house on Wesleyan’s campus. Since there are no “residential” sororities on their campus, there aren’t any instances where the rule can applied in the reverse direction (sororities being forced to admit males).

    1. Well, maybe a woman would not want to join a sorority because of typical roles shown in a sorority. And sometimes women like me typically get along better with their male friends because there is more to relate to. I don’t think that fraternies should have to admit women, and vice versa with sororities, but it still should be an option.

  1. No I do not think they forgot about sororities. On the contrary the author wants us women to remain “victims” of masculinity. In order to do so they need to do away with places where we are treated unfairly and at the same time afford us special places to grow because after all victims like us cannot compete in the real world without these special places. I am so sick a tired of the feminist movement dragging us down; at this point it does more harm than good! Most of my friends are brilliant women who do not feel like “victims”. We love our men and we are glad they men. We even support them going out and bonding with their buddies!

    1. Feminism: Equality for all, regardless of gender.

      A movement devoted to equality does not drag you down. Nor can it hate one gender or prefer another. Educate yourself and you may find yourself significantly less “sick a tired.”

      1. I do not see how a movement that has for decades insisted on not accepting the right of the opposite sex to congregate in their absence is not hateful or at the very least spiteful.

        I am educated enough thank you and I do not need the feminist movement to make me feel equal to a man.

        As long as you view yourself as inferior you will behave in manner commensurate with that poor self image and people will unfortunately react to you accordingly.

    1. Are you a member of a fraternity or sorority? Have you ever been a member of any group? Groups by nature have a purpose and goal, thereby tending to self select members. If the group doesn’t support you then create your own group. Don’t blow out someone else candle to make your shine brighter.

      1. But its exclusive nature is what makes it inclusive, to those to decide to be included in its exclusivity and enjoy being inclusive from the externally excluded.

    1. Poorly thought out argument with no substance. Don’t waste peoples time if you want to be anonymous and throw out one liners. Grow up and act like someone who belongs in college.

  2. Some sororities were founded before the word sorority existed, technically being called fraternities. It’s about the bond-regardless if you are in a sorority or fraternity. Its a brotherhood/sisterhood of members who have similar goals and interests. Each greek organization has a philanthropic element. The fact they are divided by gender is a matter of circumstance, interest, and philanthropic involvement.

  3. Wesleyan is a very poor model for BU. It is probably the most socially liberal and progressive small liberal arts College in the northeast. When Bowdoin College went coed in the 70’s, it ordered fraternities to admit women. Apparently some faculties are not familiar with sororities. We should allow student societies for men and women only, there are plenty of other student organizations with open membership policies.

  4. First, Ian, I hope you’re not serious about your “workforce” comment. That is disgusting and not funny at all if that’s what it were meant to be. The workforce is significantly different than a social club.

    Second, while I appreciate the intentions of Wesleyan which I’m sure were good, I agree with Missy. If we as women continue to act in these ways, we are not only identifying ourselves as victims but also saying in a way that we are superior to males. (Oh how “feminists” would blow up if males were allowed into both sororities and fraternities but females were not allowed to join fraternities.)

    All in all, this is actually fairly irreleveant since most Greek organizations at colleges and universities exist on the national or international level anyway, so they would have to change their policies on a much larger level which I just don’t see happening. So it’s important to note that Wesleyan is not attempting to change the entire structure of Greek life, but to just change their institutional organizations, essentially just making them the equivalent of another student club or service fraternity (which already exist in many plaxes).

    Bottom line: by doing this I believe Wesleyan students will miss out on some of the most precious things about being a member of a Greek organization. As a member of the Greek community at another small liberal arts college (BU graduate student here), I can tell you that I for one wouldn’t have had any desire to join a male fraternity on campus, because my fraternity (official verbiage) of smart, passionate, driven and incredibly FUN women was more than enough for me.

  5. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having separate clubs for different sexes. We don’t let Shinto Japanese students into Israeli-affiliated groups, and that’s not really an issue of discrimination or exclusion. If there was no opportunity for women on campus to form sororities, then yes, have co-ed frats, but as there is, it seems silly to force opposite-sex inclusion. There’s something rather nice in having time spent with only your own sex. It’s a place where both males and females can feel safe and relaxed.

  6. Wesleyan doesn’t have sororities, so that’s why that school didn’t change any policies related to women and Greek life. As a Wes alum, I say good riddance to frat homes.

    1. Interesting, that is your opinion. How would people that joined Fraternities, did good work, gained self-esteem and learned a lot feel about it? This is blowing out someone else light to make yours shine brighter. If there are problems then fix it if you can, don’t just destroy things. By the way, creative destruction is a fallacy as well.

  7. Why are women permitted to have their own gender exclusive “safe spaces”, but men are not?

    If the frats themselves actually wanted to be opened to female members they would have done so, forcing them open will just force men to find other, presumably more dangerous spaces to get away from women for a bit.

  8. I don’t think this would work because the point of joining a frat is to go to sorority mixers and hook up with as many sorority bu bitties that you can. If you let women join frats you won’t be able to objectify women the same as before. If you don’t get laid by joining a frat whats the point of joining frats?

  9. I also can’t help but wonder if this is simply a distraction from the recent stories of sororities excluding trans students.

    If eliminating exclusive organizations is that important, then end the Greek system, as well as any other club or organization that is defined along gender (or ethnic) lines. But that’ll never happen, of course, because this is about having your cake and eating it too.

    1. Careful you have recognized the duplicitness of their actions. In most cases when one group is trying to tear down another group, they pick a straw man to burn. It is easier to destroy or infiltrate another group or organization than to create a new one.

  10. Even the idea of this article being published disgusts me. Leave it to the “victims” of 2014 to come up with this ridiculous concept. For hundreds of years fraternities have served as a meeting ground for men to become brothers and share their love for each other through ritual and tradition. And now these people who are not in fraternities are challenging our existence and suggesting the absurd idea of fraternities admitting women. WOMEN CANNOT BECOME BROTHERS. Women cannot share the bond that two men can share with each other. People need to stop trying to remove the differences between men and women. We are not two interchangeable sexes. Men are not women and women are not men. THERE ARE DIFFERENCES. If this becomes a movement it will truly be a sad day for America. Fraternities created some of the greatest men our country has seen, including the vast majority of our presidents for example. Please end this bull**** now.

    1. This is already a part of the feminist ideology in America. They see a need to “feminize” fraternities as they view them as toxic social institutions that discriminate against women*. Although I don’t see anywhere a clear push for forcing this action in particular, it would be prudent to assume they do want it as forbidding women in any club considered sexist.

      This is not just an issue of gender equality, it also is about the autonomy of these fraternities. On the one hand, the university is responsible for actions done in the fraternities, whenever there is an event of violence or negative behavior as that are filed against the fraternities ultimately affect the university. On the other hand, fraternities should be able to make and enforce their own rules, if BU will not allow fraternities to choose who they want to enter, then they should force other clubs like the Jewish Hillel to have no divide between them during prayer, it’s damaging to the Greek culture to force such changes that contradict what fraternities stand for.

      *= look at the other comments here and http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5954266

  11. Accepting women into fraternities is quite a crazy idea to me, especially if they must live in the same house. We have a lot of great, strong sororities here at BU and unless someone gives strong evidence as to why we should change to this, it shouldn’t change. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Another thing, just to make sure everyone is educated about the subject: the word fraternity is synonymous with both brotherhood and sisterhood, while sorority’s definition is a society for female students. I’m sure everyone can figure out the equality bid in that one

  12. The comments in this thread that throw around victimhood and disparage feminism are so far off base. The real issue here stems from this question: does having male-only groups raise issues of equity and inclusion?

    The answer is no (at least at BU), considering the fact that women at BU have the opportunity to join sororities whose membership is exclusively open to females. Would the same logic be applied to sports teams? If there is REALLY such a desire for a co-ed GLO, then I’m sure it’s totally feasible to establish one at BU. Quite frankly, this is a rather foolish discussion topic.

  13. Let’s just get one thing straight, this isn’t going to happen here. BU is smart enough to know that it’s a terrible idea because it will only drive both fraternities and sororities off campus which will give BU near zero legislation or power over what they do. If you think there are problems now, try that. National organizations aren’t going to simply change the core purpose of their organization for one chapter.

    Why is this article even being published? Did you need a reason to jab at Greek life BU Today? No one thinks this is a good idea because a tiny liberal arts college did it. You think BU is going to have clothing optional dorms? MIT does. Maybe we should. If you read every headline you see in the paper and take it seriously then you can’t take the real issues seriously. Believe me, I’ve done my research and BU has realized that it’s far better to have Greek life on campus where they have control than off campus where they have no one to answer to. Why isn’t there talk about Greek life housing on campus so that there’s less need to move into the dangerous area of Allston? Is that a lofty goal? Yes but it’s better than finding ways to single out Greek life as the demons on campus rather than looking for ways to make it safer and abide by the university. Because I’m tired of writing something that no one will read, by trying to make all organizations inclusive to serve anyone, you really end up serving absolutely no one.

  14. Yes, let women join fraternities. Nothing wrong with a co-ed organization as long as they are willing to accept co-ed living situations, co-ed bathrooms, and equal treatment to all other members. Anything else would be preferential treatment and so defeat the purpose of equality.

    1. There is nothing wrong with co-ed organizations. Like wise, there is nothing wrong with these ones that are not co-ed.

      Imagine if a pre-professional fraternity was forced to accept everyone, even those without the same interest. Here’s an example, “Delta Sigma Pi is a co-ed business fraternity that fosters the study of business in undergraduate education.” Should they be required to accept members that have not taken and/or will not take any business classes? No. Just like 85 Broads, a club solely for women, should not be forced to accept men.

      Certain organizations are formed for certain purposes. Why change that?

  15. As far as I know, “FRATernity” comes from the Latin word “frater” meaning BROTHER….and last I checked, a girl can’t be a brother. So no. This is stupid. They opened up their frats to women as a response to rape violence? Why not directly target the issue, which is that they have rapists on campus, and punish the perpetrators? Wesleyan is obviously afraid to fight back against sexual violence on campus. BU is by far a safer environment for women, more progressive in all ways. We have no need of allowing women into fraternities, because our campus and our Greek life are safe for women.

  16. The simple answer is NO! The more complicated question is, how did we get to a point that this has become an issue? Another corollary question is why must we destroy ideas and institutions that have worked and can do good? This constant push to make everything supposedly fair and equal is destroying our society. We are not and never will be all equal, what we are is all human and unique in our own ways. What this requires is respect and dignity and to figure out a way to coexist. There is nothing wrong with men wanting to hang out with men (fraternities) and women wanting to hang out with women (sororities). If there needs to be another type of institution where men and women mix, I don know call it corotities, then create it. There also shouldn’t be double standards, what is good for one group should be the same for the other similar group. In other words, if a fraternity is allowed to do something so should the sorority. This is the concept of equity, not equality. Respect our difference and embrace our individuality.

  17. Why Cant a Sorority have off campus housing? From what I remember Fraternity’s off campus housing isn’t sanctioned by Bu, which is why there arent huge letters on the houses.

  18. Frats and Sororities should be a safe space for people to hang out with other people from the same gender unless they choose to join/found a mixed frat. Why would you be forcing anyone to admit anyone to their friend group? Sounds Big Brotherish to me…

  19. There already are Co-ed Fraternities on campus that have goals which both men and women bond over (community service and business fraternities). What is the point of destroying groups that are specifically made for people who want to hang out with their own gender when the alternative already exists? Join a club, join one of the co-ed fraternities. Why let singers join an orchestra when there is a group where they can pursue singing already?

    This issue shouldn’t be about men and women being separated, that is just the conclusion of people who see sexism apparent in our society and come up with a quick “solution” in an attempt to show they care. The real issue is that when we get blasted out of our minds, we lose control, and make poor choices, like engaging in sexual assault. If you really wanted to solve this issue, enact a campus wide prohibition! (That way we can all turn to drugs and habits worse than drinking!)

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