EUROPEAN/AMERICAN RELATIONS: WHO LEADS?
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violence and civil war. I don't think it's possible. It's a transfer of popu–
lation if you like, but again, it remains in the rea lm of fantasy. Barak's
solution for it at Camp David and at Taba was, I think, the only realis–
tic one. You can induce those who are very exposed-like, for instance,
the settlement near Nablus with just twenty people, and perhaps you
could convince the one in the center of Hebron with four hundred peo–
ple, perhaps some of the isolated ones in the Jordan valley where there
are only a very small number of people-by saying
to
them, "Alright,
you're getting in the lorries." Barak's solution was speaking of about 4
percent of the land where the settlements are. His solution was to give
them 4 percent of Israel, so there's an exchange of land rather than an
exchange of population. That is the only feasible way to do it. I don't
believe some of the bigger places along the green line can be forcibly
closed down without the collapse of Israel into anarchy and violence. So
we think that the Palestinian side at Taba was prepared to accept this
land swap, and that the negotiations broke down on another issue. As
we understand it, it was over the question of the division of the old city.
It
is divided into four quarters, and Barak was prepared
to
allow Arafat
the Muslim quarter and the Christian quarter and he wanted
to
keep the
Jewish quarter. He also wanted to keep the Armenian quarter because it
leads
to
the
ha-kotel,
the Wailing Wall. There are
2,500
people living in
the Armenian quarter. The Palestinians had
to
have the Armenian quar–
ter. I never have found a clear explanation of why they wanted the
Armenian quarter. Then Arafat threw a spanner in the works and said,
"In any case, the refugees have
to
have the right
to
return to Israel
proper." He was not prepared to make counter-proposals to Barak,
except this one that all the refugees have
to
come back. For Israel proper
to
accept the figure we are given, in round terms three million Palestin–
ian refugees, is a demographic impossibility. I don't believe that it's pos–
sible to dismantle settlements on any large scale. But I do think you could
perhaps do the land swap that Barak offered, and he indicated which bits
of southern Israel and the Negev he would be prepared to hand back.
Conor Cruise O'Brien:
You've made a very valid point. In my original
statement I was underestimating the difficulties of repatriation for the
migrant workers. The migrants are, as I understand it, basically two
types. There are the fanatical religious Jews, who would prefer, as it
were, to go down with the ship. But there are also many other Jews who
went there because it was economically rewarding at one point. I think
these people are finding themselves in a very unpleasant predicament.
Some of them are moving already and others will move in the future. So
