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PAl~
TISAN REVIEW
QlIestion:
I think that your observation, Mr. Michnik, that the American
Revolution was not based on a utopian vision is a very important one.
Nevertheless, the American experience has drawn very heavily from En–
lightenment values and in particular on the idea of progress. The idea of
progress was very central to the legitimizing myth of the Marxist-Leninist
system - corrupt, distorted, no doubt - but the whole idea was progress.
Now that we have seen the discrediting of Marxism and Leninism, will
the notion of the idea of progress also be discredited? Or will it be
available to the new societies that are going to be created in Eastern and
Central Europe?
Susan Sontag:
Well, if ever there was an illustration of progress, it was
the events of 1989. The collapse of this system certainly seemed like
progress. I don't think it has taken the discrediting of the Marxist–
Leninist system to throw into question the value of progress. The
ideology of progress has been under attack for several generations now,
linked to the negative consequences of science, and so on. There are very
few people who would say they believed in progress
before
the fall of
Communism. It is the fall of Communism that has
revived
the notion of
progress for many people. What do you think, Adam?
Adam Michnik:
I'm a pessimist. I think the idea of progress is am–
bivalent. I believe in the idea of change and development in the techno–
logical sense. But I don't think that, beginning since the time of the Old
Testament, people have the capacity to become more perfect in the
ethical sense . I think we will have to live with this knowledge, and I
think that human values and human freedom will always be in danger.
The experience of the twentieth century shows us how shaky the demo–
cratic system or order is. I unfortunately disagree with what Susan thinks,
that certain problems will end when prosperity comes.
Susan Sontag: I
don't think they are going to end.
Adam Michnik:
Because prosperity is relative. In France it turns out
that the "crisis" is so profound that Le Pen gets twenty percent in the
opinion polls. Go and tell the Russians that in France there is crisis!
Qllestion:
You have all talked today about the difficulties which East Eu–
ropean intellectuals are having in maintaining their positions as social and
moral critics, because of the state of the societies, because of their own
experiences, and so on. I wonder if you think there is any particular
contribution that can be made by those Eastern European intellectuals
