14
PARTISAN REVIEW
Questions and Answers
Roger Rosenblat:
For Americans it is very hard to evaluate the so–
called "new" Soviet Union . How realistic are
glasnost
and
perestroika
as
policies, given the economic, social, and governmental structure of
the Soviet Union, and the things it depends upon?
Natan Sharansky:
I'd say that the policy is not realistic but idealistic,
because the intentions of Gorbachev - a Soviet leader loyal to the
Communist system that made his career, with the help of the
K.G.B. -are, in fact, very good. He understands that the system is
in danger. He said in one of his first speeches - surprising everyone
by his novel views - that our economy is in trouble and it is urgent
that we do something about it if we are not to lose out in our com–
petition with capitalism. He is the first leader who said any such
thing. Before him only Sakharov and dissidents were saying this. He
understands now that collectivism and industrialization was a
mistake, that a rigid system was in fact a mistake . However, to make
it even a little less rigid happens to be very difficult, because the mo–
ment you make it less rigid you must grant more freedoms , and you
see what is happening already in Crimea, Lithuania, Armenia. And
he immediately has to set limits to these movements. On the other
hand, he wants to be aided by the resources of the West. Here I
think he has more choices, because he also knows how to impress the
West. That is why I keep saying that we can get from Gorbachev
what we couldn't get from any other leader. Well, we don't know
whether he did it, but he started doing it. Everyone was saying no to
the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty, but when Gorbachev saw
that the West was firm and that without it there would be no
economic or other concessions, he acceded. The same could be done
with human rights, though so far his limits are very quickly reached.
If you look at the history of Russia as well as of the Soviet Union,
you will see that Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Speransky, and
Khrushchev were all great reformers. All were trying to use the West
for their reforms and to copy Western systems . In each case, after a
few years they began to retreat, or they were overthrown and there
was considerable bloodshed.
RR:
What has been the effect of a case like yours on the life of Soviet
Jews now in the Soviet Union? Has life improved, or is it more dif–
ficult?
NS:
First of all, it is easier to leave the Soviet Union. Here, I think,
