568
PARTISAN REVIEW
iT:
If
it is invalidism, then it is in the Mannian sense, Mann said
that amidst the celebration of health and vigor, one sickly, creative
man is worth more than a company of strong bucks.
ZH:
Besides - believe me - it didn't pay even in terms of one's whole
life. I saw Andrzejewski in a state of decomposition. I have seen
others .... I am not talking about the younger ones because they
could have made mistakes trying to emulate the old boys . It is a
myth, and self-justification, to claim that the Polish October was
made by intellectuals .
It
was made by the Linguist, who decided to
move to the great beyonds . Then, there was a struggle among the
Diadochi. Malenkov, Khrushchev, or somebody else? So it fell on
Khrushchev . They had to do something with those who were left
over from Stalin's time, so they did away with Beria to show they
were more liberal, to end the cold war and to get meat and grain. It
is vanity to think that one can influence the course of history by writ–
ing poetry . It is not the barometer that changes the weather. Please
note that the only authentic workers' uprising in Poland - the Poz–
nan rebellion - had no resonance in literature.
It
took the intellec–
tuals by surprise.
iT:
There are just a few poems on that subject.
ZH:
That's right. And the second time - the coastal cities in 1970.
Another surprise. Nothing again.
iT:
I would like to return for a moment to the poem I've
quoted-"The Power of Taste." I fully agree with you, but I also
agree with Michnik, who-as you say-suspects some irony in your
declaration. There is something called "moral integrity ," which
governs even our reflexes, even our taste - according to Plato's con–
junction between the good and the beautiful. In some people the
moral sense was weak, open to manipulations. In some others it was
deep-rooted and manifested itself in their first reactions . The writers
of that period essentially lacked the voice of their conscience - to use
an old-fashioned concept.
ZH:
Yes, we should be bound by the inalienable character of human
conscience. An intellectual exists in order to think in his own name,
even against everybody else'. That's what he is paid, or beaten , for.
iT:
Do you see a connection between the situation in Poland and the
more general European passion for intellectual poker - the msane
Marxist poker that possessed European minds?
ZH:
Certainly . But there were others, like Camus.
iT:
His more illustrious pronouncements were banned in Poland .
This is the "ad usum Delphini" formula. Never show the intellec–
tual's fangs, only his shampooed tail.
