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PARTISAN REVIEW
tain point of view it's gratifying that many and the most varied politi–
cal groups in the West take us for their own. Why? Because if we
express something that is supported by the most varied political
groups, then we have managed to express something common to all
mankind.
VLADIMIR VOINOVICH: I also think that there must be changes
in the Soviet Union, and I am even certain that they will come about
in one way or another. A change in the present leadership is coming.
People say, "So what, whoever comes next might be even worse,"
and this is entirely possible . Many people think that then there will
be a complete tightening of the screws. But I don't think this will
happen regardless of who takes over. Because for the screws to be
tightened, let's say, to the point that they were under Stalin, it would
require at least the illusion of a great goal, which there was at that
time: a similar tightening of the screws could be accomplished only
with a flourishing ideology. But Communist ideology is lying in ruins.
Yesterday I said, and I repeat now, that I do not know a single per–
son in the Soviet Union who believes in Communism.
But now the Soviet leaders don't even know what to promise.
Twenty years ago Khrushchev promised that in 1980 Communism
would be built. In 1980, the joke went around that this year instead
of the Communism that was promised earlier, we would have the
Olympic Games. For example, what if General
J
arulzelski tried
right now to tighten the screws in Poland? What would come of this?
I think the Soviet Union is in a difficult position right now, both
economically and politically . And there's only one real way out–
democratization. Of course the Soviet leaders don't want to do this,
but I think that they'll be forced to, at least in some areas of the econ–
omy. Now the Soviet system is such that, if you touch it in one place,
it begins to fall apart in another, and the present leadership under–
stands this. Therefore, for the whole time of their leadership - I mean
after the overthrow of Khrushchev - they have been trying to pre–
serve the status quo, not to change anything absolutely. They, of
course, will live out their lives without changes, but some new lead–
ers will have to think at least five years ahead.
EUGEN LOEBL: I thought this conference was potentially one of
the most important ones I'd ever have attended, but the last two
speakers have made me think about this. Until now, I have been ad–
miring the Russian dissidents who knew only the Soviet system and
had a fantastic, I would say supernatural, creative force to maintain
