40
PARTISAN REVIEW
subtl e.
It
is a fact tha t the Ita li an Communi sts today have a certa in
amount o f la titude, and so have the French , in view o f tha t ba lance o f
power whi ch exi sts in Europe. But fo r th a t ba lance o f power, I am
afraid they would have, to put it mildl y, less. Now, you were
analyzing the reasons fo r my pess imi sm.
If
I am somewha t pessimi sti c, it has to do no t so much with the
Soviet Uni on , but with Euro pe. You menti oned Eu ropea n demo–
cra ti c morale. I see Europe in a sta te of wea kn ess. A stronger Eu rope
would have very littl e to fear. Now, one or two o th er ques ti on s of
fact.
It
was as ked , wha t could the Sovi et Uni o n do if a leadership
emerged in the Communi st part y whi ch is no t p ro-Sovi et? Well , we
had such an experi ence. And the record is no t d ea r. Fo r a whil e in
Austria, Euro-Communi st leadership was in power, and th e Soviet
Uni on su cceeded in ousting them.
The same happen ed on ce in Sweden . T he second time it did no t
succeed. So here the record is no t cl ea r. But, in It a ly, and some o ther
countries, aga in we have a mo re subtl e situa ti on , in a way like in
Finl and; in the las t ten or fifteen yea rs, there have been ha rdl y any
confli cts between the Sovi et Uni on and Finl and . Not because there
were no conflicts, but because the Finni sh government knew pre–
cisely how far th ey could go. Thi s is th e so-ca ll ed Kekkonen Line.
And in a way, we have tha t situ a ti on now with European commu–
nism. They know exactl y how fa r they can go.
Norman Birnbaum:
Now, thi s is wh en you a re ta lkin g abo ut the
parti es, ra ther than about the sta tes ..
.?
Walt er Laqueur:
I am talkin g a bo ut some pa rti es. Now , las tl y, we
talked about ideologi cal bankruptcy, and here I wo uld pro babl y
agree. But I am a fra id thi s bankruptcy today is universa l. We h ave
two camps today in Europe. We h ave the people wh o a re ideo log i–
call y bankrupt, and we have the peopl e who are confused . And on
balance, p robabl y with some mi sgivings, I would prefer the peopl e
who are confused, becau se confu sion sometimes can be crea tive. And
I do not refer to the new phil osoph ers, who a re no t crea tive.
However, if I were Sta lin , I wo uld as k, " How many di vision s
has H abermas?" I am no t Sta lin , and I know tha t ideas have
con sequences. But a t present in Eu rope tha t consequence is a long
one. At present, thi s year, next yea r, and in thi s decade, phil osophers
are not kings. And we are dea ling with the rea liti es of power.
William Phillips:
Thank you. No rman ?
N orman Birnbaum:
Well , first of all , there is no society in whi ch
phil osophers are kings, and a lthough Habermas cloes no t h ave very
many di vision s, he does have fift y o r sixty deput it'S in the left win g o f
