DAVID RIESMAN
587
DR:
That puts it well. Yes. And at the same time there is something not
wholly negative in that wish to please and to relate.
DB:
Does cultural conformity carry over into our consumer culture?
DR:
I'm glad you brought this up because on that score I'm quizzical. I
don't have this panic about consumerism in that respect. I still see vast
differences within our culture, and I think it would be very interesting to
study differing attitudes in different countries, in different regions, and in
different social strata. And I very much dislike the snobbery by which we
look down on these consumer goods that we affluent and educated peo–
ple have already worked our way beyond.
DB:
So you don't see the mass consumer culture as threatening the na–
tion's diversity of offerings?
DR:
No, I don't see it as a threat. I see snobbery in the attitude that sees
it as a threat, although I may be wrong. I see it is dismaying to people
who
miss
the idiosyncracies.
DB:
Related to our discussions of diversity and tolerance is the question
of "multiculturalism." How do you see this debate?
DR:
One of the thoughts I repeatedly have is that this debate exists in a
stratosphere which bears very little relation to the actual dreadful state of
pre-collegiate and collegiate education. What I see is that at the bottom -
and not only the bottom of the educational ladder - we have young peo–
ple who are peer-oriented, uninvolved in school, a situation in which the
things that are best learned early are often not learned at all. And instead
of concentrating on these learning tasks, debate revolves around
"Afrocentrism," "Eurocentrism," "n1ulticulturalism," assuming that mem–
bers of groups, including gender, are primarily group members rather than
primarily individuals.
I have all sorts of notions that I think might help American blacks in
predominantly white coll eges and universities. One of them is that if they
were to spend a term or a year abroad, they would discover how deeply
American they are. Blacks are some of the most American of all
Americans, particularly in religious beliefs.
DB:
Is there a relationship between the decline in standards and the effort
to be inclusive and educate for self-esteem, or is it simply that broad ac–
cess leads inevitably to a lowering of standards?
