HILTON KRAMER
An Interview w ith Helen Frankenthaler
HK:
The art scene is now so changed from what it once was. What was
it like when you were starting out?
HF:
The art scene in 1950 was relatively small and passionately involved
in the aesthetic questions and problems of art and in the making and see–
ing of art. There was a true avant-garde. The marketplace wasn't the issue
it is today. The very idea of anyone wanting to buy a painting was more
or less remote, and if and when someone did, it seemed to be a miracle, a
windfall. When Ben Heller bought Jackson Pollock's "Blue Poles," the
gossip spread like a forest fire, from the beaches of the Springs into the art
world and beyond. Hot, unbelievable news.
HK:
What were the issues? Who were the big figures determining them?
HF:
Art and history. New York was striking out on its own, apart from
Paris. Paris had been
the
influence for a long time, and in the 1940s it was
capped by the influx of all the international artist refugees, Mondrian,
Max Ernst, et al. The big first generation New York School figures, who
led and dominated the scene when I entered it in 1950, were Jackson
Pollock, Bill de Kooning, Mark Rothko, Franz Kline, Hans Hofmann,
Adolph Gottlieb, eventually Barney Newman, and all their satellites .
More remote, and yet very much a part of this scene, were Robert
Motherwell, Clyfford Still, David Smith. Unlike the others, their studios
were outside New York, but all of them had essential major roles. That
was more or less the original hard-core group . The first generation either
were showing or would be showing at Betty Parsons, or at Kootz, or at
Charlie Egan's gallery, or eventually at Sidney Janus. At that time, the
term "Abstract Expressionist" had not yet been coined. "New York
School" or "Abstract Painter" were the words we used to denote identifi–
cation.
A little later, John Myers, who started the Tibor de Nagy Gallery,
would become a force in the underground of the New York School.
John was learned, enterprising, energetic, and genuinely enjoyed being
Editor's Note: This interview took place on December 8, 1992 at The New
York Public Library.
