538
WP:
Peace, security, Intifada.
ED:
A little bit ofit.
PARTISAN REVIEW
RB-J:
Okay. Everybody wants peace, so that is not the real question. But
there are some basic problems which do not depend on that. First of
all,
what
does peace mean? Peace with Egypt was an entirely different question from
peace with the Palestinians. Who are the Palestinians we can talk to about
peace? The PLO? There is no proof, or we cannot be sure that an agree–
ment with the PLO would mean that peace is established. But let's say we
have reached an agreement with the PLO the way we did with the Egyp–
tian government. That government enforced the agreement. Aside from
whether we should talk with the PLO, even those who want to do so have
some doubts. The doubt
is
not about talking to the PLO, but about two other
very important questions: What is Israel ready to give? And what is the
PLO ready to give or to accept? We don't know what we are ready to give.
It's very clear that no one will talk about Jerusalem. And I think that the
PLO cannot afford not to talk about Jerusalem. So even if we go and talk
with the PLO, there are some big questions built into this situation which
make it very difficult. Jerusalem
is
one of them.
Secondly, let's say that we sit down and talk with the PLO. And
suppose Mr. Arafat agrees and we agree, and they accept Jerusalem as the
capital of Israel. I doubt that they can accept it, but let's say they do, and that
they have a reduced Palestinian state, because Israel will not give back
everything. Even ifArafat signs, there will be fifteen other factions who
will
continue the Intifada. We had a small-scale Intifada before 1948, after 1948,
and this is what bothers all those who really want to talk with the PLO, with
the Palestinians. We don't know how to talk, whom to talk to about peace or
security. Israelis are not entirely stupid, they think about the Palestinian
state: it will have many factions who will not like the borders, there will
be
border skirmishes, etcetera. Today the army deals with the Intifada. It's un–
pleasant and there are people dead and killed on both sides - not only Arabs
but more Arabs than Jews. I don't think that American Jews would be much
happier if there were more Jews killed than Arabs, though sometimes it
seems so. It's an unpleasant situation, and believe me, we know how un–
pleasant it is. But now the army can he there and can do something. But if
there is a Palestinian state and that Palestinian state will not openly attack
Israel but will do what the Intifada does - and they can do that - then any
retaliation by the Israeli army would be a
casus beUi
for the Arab states. So
this is why talking with the PLO is so difficult. I don't know if talks can go
very far. Because nothing can be achieved, the talks
will
not lead anywhere.
Nevertheless, I agree with you that something should be promoted,
something should
be
done, but I'm not optimistic.
WP:
Thank you Rivka, for a very sober and informative talk.
