DEBORAH SOLOMON
795
melange of people who didn't know each other or who only half
knew each other.
It
could be two or twelve .
DS:
Did Jackson feel comfortable at such gatherings?
HF:
No. Either he was sullen and silent and suffering because he
wasn't drinking, or else he was drinking and he was an im–
possible bull in the room. And neither was something one learned
to cherish socially . One couldn't entertain a dialogue with him
about life or art. One experienced the man quiet or the man wild.
I would guess he was his true self when painting. That's where he
lived . Living in other modes was very difficult. I think he was ex–
tremely lonely. He probably felt a huge lack of support; along
with his gift and conviction, he was probably in part unsure of
what he had to make as an artist. I think Lee was a great support
to him . Along with Clem, there was Betty Parsons, Alfonso, a
handful.
DS:
When you first started spending time with Pollock, he was
taking risks with his work; he was beginning his black on white
period, which was a departure from earlier work. Did he express
any doubts to you about the work?
HF:
No. I think he respected Clem's judgment enormously . But he
always showed the picture
fait accompli.
He wasn't asking how to
make that picture, but Clem's reaction and encouragement or
questioning were very important to him . He related to me be–
cause I was along, and eventually very familiar with the pattern of
the visits. A lot of it was extremely pleasant. Very sweetly done.
With care .
DS:
Do you think Jackson felt an obligation to be sober- or a need
to be drunk- when he was around Greenberg? Was he usually
one way or the other?
HF:
Generally, being on home territory, it was easier for him to be
sober. Unless we were in a pack of people, all of them drinking;
when he couldn't stand the strain, he joined in. But I think New
York was a very difficult place for him to maintain sobriety.
DS:
Then most of the weekends in Springs were sober weekends?
HF:
Frequently. I think to most of the art worldJackson was boring
when he was sober. And an event such as dreadful drunkenness
becomes a kind of theater for a lot of people. But for others who
care, it can be a terrible, suffering nightmare to endure . Both in
terms of his horror, and how terrible it was for everybody else in
the room . . . and he was extremely intelligent. He was capable
