250
FRANK KERMODE
changing notions of space, which
~
also been very much discussed
in the history of art,
is
often taken to a length in which it
is
really
contrary to common sense. In a certain sense, of course, as Kant has
mown, we can't
think
without space. In fact, how should we? We
can't
think
of a matchbox which isn't in space. And we can't think
of three points which are not somehow related in space. Therefore the
idea that there are different types of space is, I think, in a sense a
misunderstanding of Kant's idea that space is a type of thought which
particularly in Spengler's apocalyptic philosophies go to ludicrous
lengths.
But I don't doubt that these people mean something, though what
they say is of course perfect nonsense, isn't it? I mean distance can't be
abolished either in art or in reality. I fear that this type of talk often
makes
art
criticism and talk about art contemptible to scientists, and
not quite without reasons.
I think it is really partly based on a misunderstanding-the mis–
understanding that there is something peculiar in space perception
which changes with time, and that there is something peculiar in the
mode of vision which changes with time because man is supposed to
change with various ages. This is precisely what Popper has termed
historicism and is really the idea I do not hold. In other words, I do
believe that looking into a mirror a cat, or any person from any cul–
ture would have roughly the same percept. Therefore I do not think
that it is very fruitful to talk of different forms of perceptions of space,
because anybody reaching out for that matchbox would have to go
through exactly the same movements.
KERMODE:
Yes. But Popper's refutation of historicism is an extremely
precise, logical exercise, and even intellectuals remain habitually his–
toricists in their attitudes, one feels-it's a very difficult thing not to
be...
GOMBRICH:
Yes, I quite agree because obviously there are lots of things
in different ages which are fundamentally very different indeed.
KERMODE :
Yes. And out of these rooted misunderstandings all sorts of
interesting things tend to develop.
If
someone like Popper, some highly
critical intellect, had been able to tell people in the late sixteenth cen–
tury that they were really wrong about Greek music, for instance, it
would have made a difference to the future of European music,
wouldn't it?
If
he could have convinced them of this.
GOMBRICH:
Yes, of course. You mean that there are a lot of very fruit–
ful myths which are myths, and nevertheless have their very interesting
reflections in
art.
